Dog Training?

[rockyBalboa]

Wow, that was pretty deep =)
i also find comfort in the fact that there is something better waiting for all of us. Logic is always good to carry around with you. I wish I could learn when to use mine more often =)
But yes, it probably was better for you with controlled emotions in front of the dog. Te tell you the truth I don't think I could have kept myself together. I find myself to be a very emotional person. I feel anything that others feel, and with an intensity. And I swear it will be the death of me. but at least I can find compassion for those who might need me. But I applaud your ability to keep control and keep others in mind.

I know it is what is best for the dogs, or for anything for that matter, to put them out of their suffering, but part of me wonders if it is really for the better??? What about "how the Lord wants things" or if things don't experience suffering, would we truly know happiness or the moments that are good in life? I don't really know what to think about situations like this. I guess it's just meant for me to wonder...

Yes, death is definitely a necessary balance, I agree with you on that one. I don't find myself scared for death either. I just hope to know that what I have done in life proves to be a lot more good than bad. And I believe that I know where I am going, and it will be better than anything I have ever felt. But I also think that maybe someday when I know I'm getting close, I think I might be scared. I don't know if there's any way to avoid that fear. I think that if you're time is not up, the Lord will keep you here. I believe we are on his timetable.

What do you think is the best possible way to build reputation?

P.S. not to offend in any possible way, but I was just wondering...are you religious?

[Tanitsja]

yup but dont frequent the church weekly or think about it daily, i am a registrered member of our country's church though

as is the way i see it, the dog was old, he was loosing his hearing, probably his sigth, his smell and his teeths where starting to get worn down, was more and more interested in sleeping, it was only going one way, no strength to gain in it for later usage, so it was the rigth thing to do rather then wait for him to get sick, be unable to eat or whatnot, basicaly better then leting him lay around and waste away without much lifequality at all.

as for reputation, make sure you start with a clean good healthy line, and keep breeding on that, dont be afraid to use the resources out there and ask for help, this way you build contacts and learn, have a proper facility for breeding, socialise the dogs and train the puppies dont just leave everything to the puppy owners, if all things are rigthly set then likelyhood is you should in the most cases have more knowledge then most of your buyers...follow up the buyers, dont be afraid to turn some away, or check them out. My mom demand to either speak with their lifepartner or preferably that they bring the other half, a dog is a family member its a pack animal, and if the family aint in agreement this only hurts the dog. Securing healthy happy homes for the dogs with owners interested in learning means the puppies get the best chanse of success, which means your kennel get better results to advertise with.

My mom also use an exceptional amount of time checking out the males she breed with, making sure that she get hold of advanced pedigrees and not just the normal one, so she can check way back in time for results and HD freeness, as well ring around and require with people that migth know the lines if they are generaly healthy.

There is nearly no close ancestor on the today puppies pedigree's who do not have at least one championat, and they all HD free way back beyond like said the normal pedigree thats issued. They are raised in a good enviroment, where they can grow up calmly, sleep when they need, and socialise when awake, no playing short of natural type of rolling balls or whatnot, no stressing, shouting or whatnot around them. They are potty trained, know how to come by comand and on whistling, know to sit and lay on comand and sign, and know the meaning of the word No by the time they leave at 12 weeks. My mom helps the owners pick the rigth dog based on their experience level, and the usage they need it for, as she know the individual puppies. Of course relatives and friends come over, and we do have other dogs as well, so the puppies are socialised on both humans and dogs, and even if we keep a own room for them we do take them into the house, if not daily as the rest of the dogs, then at least once or twice a week once they old enough to do more then just sleep and eat.

[Kholran]

I worked in the adoption department at a local shelter for a while, and housebreaking is one of the biggest things we'd have to give advice on. So here are my tips:

1. DO NOT punish the dog for having an accident. No hitting, no yelling, and NO rubbing its nose in the accident. It's a baby. You wouldn't yell/hit a child for not being potty trained, so why would you do it to a dog that doesn't know better? Punishing the dog for going potty (remember, it has no idea what the difference between inside and outside is) is only going to teach it not to go potty in front of you. I've seen dogs at the shelter that had been punished when they had accidents. You could take them on a two-hour walk, and they would NOT potty in front of the handler. As soon as you put them back in the cage and walked away, they would go on the floor because they were SO afraid of being punished.

2. Consistency! Get the dog used to a schedule- as a puppy, that might be every half hour at first. Take it out to the exact same spot and say 'go potty'. Don't walk around, or take too much time, or the puppy will take advantage of that and play around rather than do its business.

3. Prevention! If the puppy never has the chance to make a mistake, you don't need to correct it. That's where the schedule comes in. Don't even give your pup the opportunity to have an accident.

4. Reward. When he does what he's supposed to outside, make a huge deal out of it. He's the best dog in the world, lots of 'good dog' and lots of treats. Trust me, it won't take long for the connection between goodies and pottying outside to develop.

5. Crate train. If you use the crate correctly (the puppy only has room to stand up, turn around, and lay down), you're not going to have accidents when no one's home or able to pay full attention to the puppy. Instinctively, the dog isn't going to potty where he sleeps, so if there's only enough room to sleep in the crate, there won't be room to potty. People make the mistake of giving the puppy the whole crate so it has 'lots of room and isn't upset'. The more room it has, the bigger likelihood of accidents.

6. Avoid paper training. It just confuses the dog, since that basically teaches them to go potty inside, and then you change the rules later on. It also teaches them that ANY paper on the ground is fair game- school work, books, the newspaper your dad is reading, etc.

7. If the dog has an accident, the only thing you can do about it is clean it up and try to catch it sooner next time.

8. Any accident the dog has is usually caused by human error. Get to know your puppy's signs of needing to go. How long after eating? How long after a hard play session? How long after drinking? If you watch closely, use the crate, and use the schedule, there's no reason for an accident inside.

[rockyBalboa]

Hey, sorry it's been a while since I was on last. I was at camp.
But, thanks Kholran! That was SUPER helpful! Those look like all great tips! I will definitely use those.
I never really thought about paper training that way, Haha!

[Tanitsja]

not me neither as said though because we dont really puppy train older puppies, so for us its a continious process from the day they are born (where you really have no choise but to have a system on it, and i know it works cause all our litters been trained before leaving the kennel)

[rockyBalboa]

And it should be a continuous process. I am a firm believer that dogs never stop learning and they should be trained throughout life. Kind of like people, who should never stop learning either.

[Tanitsja]

yeah though sadly far to many breeders do not think as far as to potty train their dogs, they are in an ideal situation to do it so much easier then the new owner, because they can basicaly quite easy follow the method i was given so as the puppies grow old enough to stumble around and not just be indoor they also become clean

further far to few of them socialise enough and use time on each individual to teach them in their early age when they learn so very very easily

i think it should be a given that puppies by the time they leave their mother and the kenel knows all the basic training, we even started on training them to walk in a leash before they leave.

[rockyBalboa]

Yeah, people don't take advantage of the puppy years to train. When they are most able to learn. Alot of people get frustrated when their adult dogs do stuff they don't like and try to change them when it is really late to be changing the way they do things. especially once they are set in their ways.

[Tanitsja]

lol talking before that, a successfull breeder have the knowledge on how to easy do things, and use it as part of the socialisation

ie talking puppies before 12 weeks of age, before owners can get their hands on them, makes it easier on the buyers *s* who get a new dog, and the dog who is coming to a new place and all, has enough to adjust to the first time

of course a puppy is a puppy and will behave as such, have accidents and get ideas when their teeth itch, or their curious, however geting a puppy who mainly just socialised with its peers and aint used to being in a house and around humans, such run rampid well gives the buyers quite a lesser starting point then

geting a puppy who are generaly potty trained, can to some degree walk on a leash, know the meaning of the word no, know that chewing toys for chewing on, know to sit and lay down, know to come when whistled at, and know that learning and obeying means treats and lots of praise, and lastly but maybe most important of all, is used to being handled and checked out, geting claws cliped and whatnot...that one there is something many strugles with

A puppy thats been socialized from day one and learned everything as early as can do, is much more well adjusted to take on the world and make an easy transaction into a new home wheter the owners are experienced or less experienced counting less in the situation because heaps of the bumps been removed beforehand

[rockyBalboa]

Yeah, I know that one from experience. My dog is not used to being handled and examined and stuff, and so we have a hard time taking him to groomers and brushing his teeth and stuff. So that was a big mistake on our part. He is also not fond of dogs bigger than him just because of past experiences with big dogs. (Let's just say he's been torn apart two or three times by big dogs.) If I had known beforehand I definitely would have socialized him and given him a good training but I was little when we first got him so that's not possible.

[Tanitsja]

actualy its never to late, rehomed dogs shows that, we had one who came from abuse that we resosialiced and retrained before passing her on to a new home

[rockyBalboa]

that's no doubt true, I just don't know how to go about doing it all.

[Tanitsja]

for the dog socialising i'd contact someone who been educated on the area, and then describe and give up all the info i got on the dog, thus giving them best posible chanse to advice on how to deal with this for your specific dogs personality

for the handeling it would depend on how the dog react
-ie just reluctanse or really figthing it or worst case showing signs of agression

reluctanse can be overcome by a litle force in combination with praise and treats

figthing would be more of slow adjustment working on the dogs terms and slowly adjust their limits, to avoid pushing them over the limit to where you must figth them and they may turn agressive

if agressive, um if your a kid or not very knowledgable or determid i'd not do it myself but leave it to someone who know dog behaviour...an agressive dog is dangerous and working on it is a knife-edge balance of trying to gain its trust and make it see that something isnt dangerous, while clearly establish that only retreat is acceptable, agression is not but will be met with enforcing dominance (you cant allow a dog to get away with acting agresivly as it will then try to take control by becoming the dominant part of the realionship) in a gentle but firm way

[rockyBalboa]

I've often thought about getting someone to take a look, but I don't know how I would pay for it.
Well he has many different reactions. When he gets groomed, he bites, but when we brush his teeth he just pulls away and its just really difficult. But he is not aggressive, I know that for sure.
reluctance overcome by force, praise and treats...How much force are we talking about? Obviously we are not hitting the dog or yelling, but what?
Haha, No I am not a kid, and I do know the dangers of an agressive dog. but it's a relief he is not aggressive.

[Tanitsja]

and i say it once again not to you but anyone else who may read it, if your a kid (with this i include the young teens) DO NOT go and do this yourself, this in adult a dog no mather big or small breed, should always be done by an adult to begin with, so you can be sure that the dog is stabile and has learned to accept being submited without biting, before kids try to do it, and the first times a young person do it should always be in supervision of an ADULT. A dog that show reluctanse even if not showing prior agression may still think its the leader, and may strugle more then antisipated when submited, if the situation get out of hand any and all dogs are at risk of trying to bite (you simply can not know for sure untill it has been tested, and just because the dog submit to your mom or dad do not mean that he has accepted you as the leader, and wont try to figth to maintain that leadership).

well force what i mean by it is simple, you going to say cut claws, some dogs its not enough to tell them to lay down and take their paws and start using the claw scisor

our old brood was this way, they had to take her to the vet it was such a strugle, she basicaly thougth them a lock down tecnique where one holds the dog down while the other cut

basic gist you get the down dog down, with the one to hold kneeling, place the dogs back against them, they take one front leg up infront of the other, and same with backleg, while gently resting their arms over the dog

basicly the dog is locked down and in a position where its rather hard to wrestle loose, the person to do the cliping can now just take one of the left over paws and hold it firmly while doing the claws, the feet held already is of course already held when they get to them

basicaly you imobilise the dog (as long as its not otherwise agressive just strugeling, this should be quite safe )

with teeth i'd get the dog to come to me, cudle a lil while i position myself so i sit behind the dog, and have it siting between my legs (if it tries to back it would back into me), then reatch around and firmly grasp the head and lift the lips holding it still, and then leting go before it starts strugeling in earnest, give it a treat and tell it its a good dog, praise it in the skies

basicaly let go before it strugle so it sees that when it dont strugle you get happy with it, make it a daily rutine to do so a few times throughout the day, and it should eventualy get used to it and conect it with geting a yummy treat after and lots of praise

we had a dog that was to lazy to keep her tail up, as we were going to show her, that was a teqnique of constantly looking out when she was in, and every time she let it drop we told her "tail up" and then pushed the tail up, basicaly this though was a battle of will, she learned that if she didnt get it up we would constantly go pushing it up anyway, while if she did put it up when we said so and we didnt need to push it up she was praised.

for grooming i'd start with just mimicing it with my fingers gently as it may be the dog is grown afraid of the brush, make sure you have a comb that doesnt hurt (which may be an experience that intialy lead to disliking and fearing to be brushed), while mimicing sweet talk to the dog as long as he behaved, the moments he shows signs of biting though, establish your dominance and the this is not ok message, by firmly telling the dog No in a low firm voice (low is negative for dogs, high voice is positive, use this to enhance the msg to the dog when talking to it by adjusting your voice based on wheter you are praising it or telling it off so to speak)

Alternativly if you know from before that this dont work, you can as a warning signal in adition to saying NO also grip its neck in a firm but gentle way (do not pinch, just grip it, if you seen a dog seteling in a dog pack where there is a clear leader, he may do this thing and then let go, he dont really bite he just warns, akin to if you lay your hand around someones wrist without using force just holding around it ie it shouldnt hurt)

If the behaviour do not stop after the No (alternativly with neck grip), then clasp down on the grip and grip the dog somewhere else, make sure to not pinch it with your nails or such, you just want enough of a grip that you quickly/swiftly without hurting the dog but with deermination can turn it on its back, get a good grip on the dog to the extent that any strugeling will not get it up, and keep it on its back untill it submits (ie stop making objective noises and stops strugeling, but become relaxed and still), then let the dog back up an tell it its a good dog (it did what you wanted, it submited to your leadership)

then resume activety for a little while but stop before you can get another battle, this is just to make sure that you end the session in a positive way, ie with the dog experiencing that if it just lets you do the grooming and behave you will let it go

always stop a training session of any kind in a moment where the dog is still achiving the aim

of course if the behaviour do stop when you warn it with a No then resume for a while, and let go while positive, if it have stoped, and the session do not end till another objection can be posted always warn first again, treat each objection individualy

ie dog object time 1, you warn it, behaviour stop, success
dog object time 2 some 2 min later, you warn it, behaviour stop, success

basicaly do not take a seperate objection to step 2 of process, because you succeeded with the warning so leave it at that and any new objections you start over

if not then the warning wont mather because the dog see the two as two seperate events, so if you arent structive in always dealing the same way with things it will become confused

its only if say you see the dog is about to bite or give you a warning grasp (like described above), you say No and it still bite then you act, if it takes the warning, then praise it for this instead

its important to be consistant with dogs, always give them a chanse by warning them first, and if they obey then instantly praise them for this

of course if the dog just instantly snap around and actualy bite you (not just warn you) then you instantly respond by turning it on its back, this is not acceptable at all and is so grave that it warant an instant response, but as long as it only threathens like snaps in the air, growls, or just warns you by holding over without clamping down, you can warn it back that you dont accept it warning you ...because you is the boss so you warn it back of this

this way the dog should learn also that when you tell it no it should respect it (so you dont have to wrestle it) because if not it will end up on its back (which they tend to take rather serious when they get forcefully submited)

but yeah other then that, start adjusting your dog to being handled, like massage its ears by using tumb and pointing finger on each side in gentle circles (most dogs that aint afraid of their ears actualy enjoy this, just be very gentle about it), teach it to accept you looking at its teeth, feeling all over its body with your hands and whatnot, runing your hands down its legs, and lifting its paws and whatnot

its so much better for the dog if they are used to being handled and examined, as if you ever need to take them to the vet they have a much easier job (+ its nesicary for judgement on shows), our vet loves our dogs, because they just lay there on the table and let him do practicaly whatever he wants with them without caring...this because we pretty much handled them since birth in this way, so they are used to being examined all over and dont think twice about it (because they know it wont hurt them at all so there is nothing to be afraid of)

so yeah learn you dog to be handled and examined, without being afraid of this hurting, if he can learn that its actualy pleasureable and he in adition get praise and treats from it...then he should learn to love it