NEW overpopulated animal count.

[Misty Glen]

I based those prices on current market values and trends. Significant differences may be observed between different species depending on how popular they are.

And with species in which there are few breeders it's not uncommon for hardly any animals to be on stud, so a player studding out such an animal may have a monopoly on the market, thus allowing them to charge more.

[SisKate]

BUMP.

I think this is a very important message that is posted here. The statistics shocked me

SisKate

[her]

Honestly, I don't get it. In real life, people spend millions trying to promote their breed, get people to buy their strains of animals and such. Why is it so different on SBF? I mean, if I created something I would want it to become as popular as possible, I would feel totally honored that people were breeding MY creation. Also, about "decreasing value" that just doesn't make any sense at all. if you have 3 animals for a rare AE variation, each animal would be worth 300 mil, for a total of 900 mil. Now if you had 50 of those animals, the AE factor would keep their price up, so each animal would be worth 50mil. that is a total net worth of 2,500,000,000sbf cash. Umm, which has the greater value?????????????

Also, there wouldn't be as many valueable variations lost when people quit SBF. What better way to lose money than to spend $40.00 on a foundation pair and then wasting all that money simply because you didn't allow them to be bred and when you were sick for a few months your foundies died? There wouldn't be a need for Variation restoration projects in the first place if people would only breed their animals!

[Sipphy]

her, that is exactly how I felt when I first joined the game, but since then I've become more familiar with the unique dynamics on sandboxfarm.
People do feel honored (I'm assuming) when others want to own and breed their creation, but they also like to have a say in the fate of their creation.
Your model of the difference between 3 and 50 animals was pretty much correct, but it's not the one that counts. Lets say you have 3 animals worth 300 million each, and I do too. Now say that I breed those 3 animals until I have fifty, each worth 50 million. You just went from having 900 million to 150 million. Which has the greater value?

[her]

Actually, I've been playing longer than you lol but besides that, I do see your point. I understand both sides, but I think that sometimes people get a little too worked up over animal breeding, and if you sell someone an animal they should be able to do what they want with it, without fear of getting in trouble with someone like the ethical breeders association, which, have no right to go telling people what to do, as they are not admin.

[Ferox]

Maybe no right to tell, but the right to ask.

It exists, in my understanding, because people made creations that were special to them in some way, with a population that skyrocketed, making them feel like their creation wasn't respected, and therefore that they weren't respected. So they stop creating, so they leave. It's about hurt feelings more than anything else, and while it may be very defensive, there's a reason it developed.

And the Variation restoration project is more for those breeds that aren't cats/dogs/horses, the ones that more than 50% of the players here don't even bother to breed.

[Cowgirls Rule]

bumping this up

[A. L. Aljan]

Ferox, *YOU* get the big picture, and that is why I have always had a great deal of respect for you and Sipphy, you hit the nail on the head. It seems that the ones that have the "I do what I want" attitude are never the ones that do much creating at all... they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Does anyone ever wonder why the folks that did most of the creating on this game are gone or are leaving? Although I can't vouch for all of them, I can tell you the main reasons I can't stand it here anymore:

1. Broken contracts. Lots of them. Most of the people who I trusted with creations I paid for took it upon themselves to profit from them in secret and in violation of a written contract we both agreed upon... in fact, some of them are doing it right now while they think my back is turned. (You know who you are!) All it takes is a single dishonest player to release an animal to wrong person, and in a few weeks, it ends up at auction, or worse, on the open market. It's happened to me more than once.

2. A new and selfish trend in the SBF community. Again, it appears that when the cats are away, the mice are playing, and all it takes are an overly-vocal few to mobilize the secretly-selfish into an openly-defiant mob. I can't help but add that, again, that these folks are typically not people who create, but, rather, capitalize on others' work.

3. Hypocrisy. I can't tell you how many times I've been blasted on the forums by the very people who would later ask me for help in resolving a broken contract... the latter half would, of course, happen in PRIVATE.

Yes, this is just a game, but that implies that the experience is supposed to be enjoyable, and for me, it isn't anymore. Towards the end when I became less active and more aggravated, I spent more time trying to help out others than I did trying to preserve others' creations (the Foundation Stock Service) and sorting out others' disagreements than playing the game: I haven't entered an event in years, let alone hosted one, which I used to do frequently. I can't re-invent this game into any semblance of fun anymore.

Blast my E.B.A. all you want - apparently it's the popular thing to do for all of the nay-sayers it pre-dates - but once upon a time, it brought a record number of players together in the name of mutual respect, benefitting MANY players by keeping the value of their prized creations at a price befitting their rarity and, more importantly, in a way that honored their creators. Can the same be said of any other organization? FYI, if you bother to look through the old E.B.A. threads, you'd realize we insisted on using tactful, respectful measures to EDUCATE, not bully... we even had a carefully-worded form letter to ensure that bullying tactics weren't used when communicating from player-to-player. Another little-known fact: the best admin. SBF ever had was one of our most esteemed members.

Enough of my ranting. Please play respectfully and take care.


~ Amanda @ Aljan

[*~Trent~*]

I think that SBF is changing. Just like how neighborhoods change, people change, over time; everything changes. Now SBF is changing. For better or worse. With the influence of most beta testers gone, there is nobody to point noobs in the right direction but people who haven't been playing long themselves.

If you REALLY want to stop overbreeding, kill the marketplace. If Noobs have nowhere to buy animals but by directly asking a person, involving a contract, it could stop the problem. But without the marketplace, then you lose whatever economy is left.

The best thing you guys could have done was stay, but since you didnt, SBF is changing.

Yeah, you are totally right. With the cat away, the mice will play. If you really cared about your creation, you would have stayed and protected it. Since you didnt stay, people assumed you wouldn't come back. Over time, the animal will leak. Most of the players that leave never come back. If they left, and didnt come back, they must not care, if the creators dont care, why cant the animals be sold? Yeah, some people are forced to leave, but at the other side of the screen, it looks like the person quit.

Now, I personally dont overbreed or break contracts, just as a sign of respect. Also, I dont find overbreeding that appealing, as it lowers MY prestige and ruin my animals value. But if i get an animal with no contracts, I may sell one or two offspring.

The old SBF way was to keep the animals private. Maybe Her is right, maybe we are changing into a site that tries to promote their breed. I can't say, and I'm not sure I really care.

I try to stay neutral, but as you can see, I get a little bias.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I'm certainly not trying to start a fight, I'm just putting in my opinion.

[Vitani]

To me, at the end of the day, it comes down to a few very simple things...

Honesty

Morals

Ethics

Break one, you break them all, really. I guess because of my age, and the things I've seen in life, I'm more than a little biased. Trust and respect needs to be earnt through actions...The saying actions speak louder than words is very relevant, especially in this day and age.

I'm not up on my high horse about anything, ever (at least, I don't think so) and I try at all times to be neutral, even if its something I'm deeply passionate about. An inability to see both sides of the coin means you'll never get anywhere...


But when all is said and done....How you play the game reflects what kind of person you are in real life. Its a game, absolutely. Meant to be fun. Meant to be challenging. But just because the animals aren't real and can't die of starvation if you quit playing, doesn't mean that real feelings aren't attached to them. Especially those created by tokens....Actual work went into earning the cash to buy those tokens...So it makes the creation just that little bit more rewarding. Who are we to say someone is selfish for not releasing that creation to the general public to be abused? It was created for that players enjoyment and if they choose not to share, so be it. Would you buy a pair of designer jeans, then let everyone in your neighbourhood wear them? I seriously doubt it. At least, not until you were done enjoying them yourself....

Apply that train of thought to SBF.

A promise is a promise, and a contract a contract. It may not be legally binding............But when you ruin it, it's only yourself that you hurt.

My list of players that I won't trade with/sell to is sadly quite a long one...It didn't use to be

And it doesn't matter to me if someone has 'quit' or not........If I said I will or won't do something, then I do. I have a creature on my farm that I promised 2 YEARS ago to the creator that I would not release it to the public except sterile. I also promised to keep it alive. I promised that I would only ever give away 1 'whole' baby, to a person I had absolute faith and trust in.

Will that player come back? Pretty unlikely. Does that mean I'm going to ever break that promise? Absolutely not.

Its a button...Click, click, transaction made. Off I go, eating a cookie, merrily thinking "its just a game, not a real animal"..........Meanwhile that broken contract puts me on that persons blacklist. I'm never getting animals from that farm again. Sucks to be me....

All for the sake of petty cash that, like the animal, isin't real.



I'd rather have trust and respect than a hoard of animals and cash....I'd rather have friends. And I would rather share my creations with someone I know will appreciate it the way I do........



But thats just me...

[firebird!]

Well said, 'tani. I must agree with you.

[A. L. Aljan]

Trent, I'm afraid you're just not seeing the big picture.

For the record, I created a friggin' club, for crying out loud, so it's an understatement to say I *DID* educate new players, probably for a longer period than most folks here even been playing. That meant that, despite having THREE jobs, I still took the time to do what most others wouldn't: HELP. Did it/does it still make me a target? You bet. Did that stop me? Nope. Someone had to do it, and although everyone's lightning-fast to offer to help in some way, very few people actually make good on their promises - trust me, I know from experience.

Also, I have only recently announced my retirement. Most people know because I have posted it multiple times that I have to take long pauses from the game because, as I said earlier, I work a LOT of hours. Have you ever tried to concentrate on a game (or anything, for that matter) after a 14-hour day of physical labor? Ever tried to do it when you've got a heart condition that reduces your ability to pump oxygen throughout your body, especially in the heat? If not, I don't recommend it. When I did get around to playing, as I mentioned earlier, I spent more time trying to help others sort out their issues here than actually playing the game, i.e. taking turns. It is considered good ettiquette to at least TRY to contact the creator if one is going to release another's creation before doing so and actually give that person a chance to respond before taking it upon onesself to do it... of course, that only happens if a person truly cares about the consequences of his/her actions, which doesn't seem to faze most people these days. Unless a person asks, s/he doesn't know the situation that may be keeping the creator from playing the game and unless the would-be seller/trader is psychic, s/he doesn't know when or if another player plans on returning. Some of these creations honor a real-life animal that has been recreated here, and some of these beloved pets are no longer with us; to others, they are merely a means of achieving a little more prestige. That's one of the reasons I haven't sold ANYTHING from my farm on the open market or at auction in a year or two - I only trade with the very few people I trust, and if asked about someone else's creation, I refer the person to the creator of the animal in question. I figure that if someone else created it, they should benefit from its existence.

I'm not targeting you, by any means, but assuming to know someone else's gameplan or life situation and using it as an excuse to violate a contract or overbreed someone else's prized creation isn't fair, and I had to address it. So many of my friends here have had to leave due to extenuating circumstances only to return to a disaster, and most of the time, they got too frustrated to return for good. It's one facet of the reason I, too, will likely be leaving, probably permanently.

This kind of thing is what makes people refuse to create anymore, and if this continues, the game could get very, very stagnant. I can't imagine that's what any of the current or past players want - I warn because I care.

... and I would be remiss if I didn't add that Vitani summed up the thoughtful, ethical way that the truly great players of the past and present play SBF and what inspired me to create the EBA in the first place! My trusty trade list used to include about 35 people: now there's about 4 or 5 because of all of the broken contracts. In a community where many players trust eachother to use restraint and respect when breeding well-trained and cherished stock with one another, MANY trusted players get to share MANY wonderful creations because they all enjoy sharing with and helping one another, and THAT, I believe, is the big picture.


~ Amanda @ Aljan

[wolfgirl159357]

*Amanda{Hggles}!!!!! sry just had to post, and i hope i am one of those 4-5 players *

Well the whole point really, is to try and keep AE's from becoming overpopulated, and help keep the value of AE's up and stop people from overbreeding, like i know the Adorable Mutt dog, it took me like a month to get ahold of one adn i payed a nice chunk of cash, then like a month later, a newbie gets one and she breeds it like crazy, selling its offspring for like 2 mill.

[Cassy7]

WOW!!!!
i just read this whole thing and thats all i can explain it with is WOW!!!