SBF Gets Left in the Dust

[her]

Okay, maybe I lied when I said ALL studs up CHEAP. There are some horses that have great lines, are fully stated out and are end/end. These aren't meant for newbies, and I need my investment back on them so, no, they aren't cheap, but at least they are on the open market. My less rare studs are up though.

[Vitani]

Nobodies going to like this.....*sets out cookies to soften the blow*



I am technically what Misty would call 'an elitist'. Not a term I'm very happy with, but I respect others rights to an opinion, and thats hers. Moving on...

I'm a member of the EBA ( Ethical Breeders Association ) and I'm PROUD OF IT. Amanda ( Aljan, for those not knowing ) did a good thing with the clubs creation. In a time when ( yes, Ragdolls, but others too ) were blowing way out of proportion, it introduced a code of ethics.

Unfortunately, some people were just a little too literal and got extremely gung-ho about breeding, and the markets dried up, the newer players were left out, and some moderate to senior players cried foul because the cheap studs, cheap sales etc etc were being called out. It was all well and good breeding 20 animals on your farm....But selling them all at low prices compounded the problem and thats what started the fiasco. No names need be mentioned because those people know who they are. Many of them are 'reformed' and are now considered trustworthy. It CAN be done!

But it drew a dividing line down SBF. The overbreeders, and those wanting to preserve their creations. Alot of players ( who were my friends, and some who weren't ) quit over it, which was a real loss to the game. Especially those creations of theirs that we will never get back ( except those existing in the FSS, another excellent idea by Amanda )

Dark days indeed.

But, I like to think we've moved on. Most EBA members now ( and did back then, too, only nobody was prepared to listen, prefering to be on the 'your being selfish' bandwagon ) adhere to a simple policy...

BREED RESPONSIBLY.

Not don't breed.
Not don't sell.

Just breed realistic numbers, sell/stud for amounts appropriate to the animals worth, and be careful who you sell to. Thats all it is, at the end of the day....Trusting the chain. The broken link that gets someones animal from someone else through an auction run on behalf of the players sisters neighbours cousin is the one to blame, not the creator. Not the person who bought said creation and sold one. Or the next person. Or the next. Its the killjoy that somewhere along the line breeds seventy and looks at the numbers and goes....70 animals at 10 mil a pop...Wheeee!

That person sucks.

And ruins it for the rest of us. Because that person, is the one that makes a creator say, I'm not selling 'em.

I've had my creations blow all out of proportion. It didn't make me threaten to quit, but it did make me more careful who I sell to. I still create. And since I can't always afford A/E, I create what I can and trust in the SBF community to keep them controlled. And you know what?

By being careful who I sell/gift to...

By asking that they simply 'breed responsibly'...

By offering to buy back unwanted creations and releasing myself...

I'm content with the numbers of my creations in game.


It really is that simple. Trust is earnt people. Show me through actions that you know how to be a good player.....

And I'll love you forever




*munches a cookie quietly, waits for potential back-lash, and ponders new colours for the Sandbox Ponies*

[*~Trent~*]

there is someone i ahve been messaging that wont accept that overbreeding breeds like pharoah hound is bad. what do i do?
they insist on selling them cheao to noobs, and are stocking TONS of them up, before actually selling them.

[Cocodri]

***scoots in next to Vitani and grabs a cookie and hands her a cup of hot chocolate***

You know, I don't by definition find the EBA a "bad" thing.

When all that biz happened I was a pretty new player. I heard all the raised voices from outside the door - and just backed up and went back to my own little corner to play with my own little animals for a while. Rather than risk offending anyone in any way, I basically quit breeding anything except for replacement or my own pleasure unless it was my own variety or color. I wasn't alone in that.

I know a lot of great players quit - and that's sad and a loss to the game and the community.

I also know that I, myself, almost quit because I got so tired of people writing me and telling me what to do with my own animals - even my own varieties - that I couldn't breed, or put an animal at stud or heaven forbid sell something. I bet a lot of newbies do quit because of that.

I'm tired of that. And I believe that is what has pushed us into this stagnant little corner of the pond.

The last thing I want to do is get that "war" going again and get everyone "taking sides".

We need a middle ground. Like Rare or below is okay to go ahead and breed, sell, stand at stud for prices newbies can manage. And then if you sell that newbie a Rare and they stat and show and then stud and breed a few for themselves it is the natural way of things that meanwhile they'll get to be part of our community and get the opportunity to buy animals of higher status, either by being a friend with the creator, or through being able to afford to purchase on the marketplace with SBF money their farm earned. And having earned that money, it will have value to them and it is only natural that if they had to scrape and save to buy that $10million End/End animal they aren't going to stand him at stud for $50 or sell his foals for $100.

Just like you say, Vitani, careful who you sell/gift to, ask them to breed responsibly, judge them by their own actions, sell or stud at private treaty only or at a price that by itself weeds out people not yet ready for the responsibility.

But we really have to break out of this rut of no breed no sell, which has come about because so many of us got chewed out for putting any animal up for sale or at stud. I'm sorry - but it is simply ridiculous to worry about overbreeding of animals that can be rescued or easily purchased with tokens to the point that you can't even buy an Overpop variety - or it vanishes from the game because of NO breeding.

It just is not automatically a bad thing if a newbie rescues their first pair of horses, gets an Arabian mare and a Thoroughbred stallion and decides they'd like to breed her to an Arab. It is a bad thing if they then cannot find an Arabian stallion at stud or for sale at any price. Wouldn't it just be nicer if they could come to my farm and find Arab stallions, pure for five generations and all NW stats, standing at stud for $10000. Don't you think they'd cherish that foal born with all amaz stats and maybe want to stay and play and see how he will do in the shows and maybe someday buy a mare to go with him and then...stay and play until the next thing you know they've been playing for three or four years and created half a dozen cool varieties to share and enjoy with the next bunch of newbies.

By and large, SBF is sort of the kinder, gentler Orbis Game (to me) I like it that way. I think we can be that way, and be more welcoming to new players, too. And by offering them something to strive towards - more better rarer animals - without stifling them down at the rescue level, allowing them to breed and sell - we'll get some fun new people to get to know and play with.

Not that I don't love you all, but don't you like making new friends?

****snuggles Vitani and hands her a couple more cookies***

[Vitani]

*munches a cookie, swaps the recipe with Cocodri*



I've said for a long time that we are in a rut with some animals. I ignore dogs, horses etc....We're never going to run out of them. But by and large, there is a tiny handful of players ( myself included ) striving to keep the neglected animals from poofing away completely, to the point where they need to be bought with tokens or rescued. It was so bad at one point that I had to pay my own real life cash just to keep nicely coloured, decent variation chinchillas in the game.

Chinchillas, for petes sake.


In my mind, I have no problems with the breeding/studding/selling of lower rarity animals. EVERY PERSON PLAYING SBF STARTED OUT THAT WAY! In these days of 200 million dollar prices....Some players have forgotten the joy when we first started of finding something 'good' on the market at a price we could afford and 90% of us are guilty of overbreeding those animals to move onwards and upwards in the game. Why should now be any different?

But....Credit where its due. Buying it from the market is one thing. To me, if you bought it from the market, that animal should NOT come with any kind of breeding 'advice'. Marketplace animals are fair game. Auction and private sales, I believe should have the opportunity to kindly request responsible breeding practices with.

But at the end of the day, once it leaves your farm, you no longer have a say in how it's handled. You can ask nicely till you're blue in the face, and Lord knows I've tried.....But people will do what they want. And you learn who is 'safe' and who isin't. I trust you, you spit in my face, I don't sell to you again. Nor will I buy anything from you, or use your studs. I want nothing to do with players like that....But thats just me. Some players don't mind, and thats perfectly fine too...Nobody plays the same way.

But really....Manners cost nothing, good etiquette will get you everywhere, and you get more friends with cookies than a punch in the face.

Breed/sell/stud where its due. Make money. Have fun.

But try not to crush somebody else to do it, eh?



*munches cookies with a flower in her hair, barefoot and humming "imagine"*

[Cosmosxx]

I am on board, and understand everyones points from both sides.....

I have created a couple of things, and anyone who has them knows I do not say breed to replace. I know that I wouldn't want them to be widespread. This is not because I want to sell them, it's just because they are special to me.

Everyone who knows me knows that I buy a lot of foundie pairs, and am often *in trouble* for helping these variations become more accessible to everyone.

** edited - Could be seen as embarrassing or causing distress or unwanted attention of another player **

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Misty Glen]

[Cocodri]

***dancing gracefully in to Vitani's humming***

See, we can all get along and make nice and have fun. I knew we could do it.

I, too, have spent tokens to drag back variations in danger of vanishing. I mean really, NEWTs. But I like newts and salamanders and skinks and things and from the response I got when I put my little newtie for stud and sold some babies, I'm not totally alone.

I have this silly little idea that I want everything on my farm that really exists out here on the real Jornada, and have found over and over that I cannot purchase perfectly "common" animals such as black bears or porcupines unless I go after foundies with tokens. Which works for all of one generation, of course, since there are none to breed them with.

In my ideal SBF world there would be nothing "common" or "abundant" that you couldn't go to the market place and find at stud or on sale at any given time. I like to think the next newbie like me who likes weird stuff like salamanders, or snakes, or skunks, could start playing and realize "wowie, I could raise skunks!" and then FIND them on the marketplace and then want to stay and play and save up and buy tokens and add half a dozen skunk variations and colors and details...

And at the same time that newbie could learn some respect - if not from his/her peers on the forum - by buying and overbreeding and then discovering there is no market left for her male or her kits or by discovering there is an AE skunk out there that belongs to an older player who treasures it and who will ask for a breed to replace agreement.

I really have faith (maybe I'm silly but I do) that the open marketplace and economy of this game will take care of itself with a bit of love, honor and respect from the older (wiser?) players and a great big dollop of letting things take care of themselves over time.

***Vitani, how 'bout this one***humming "all you need is love..."***

[keema]

-sticks her head in- Wow, a lot of talking going on here! -attaches herself to Tani and her cookies- Hrmm.. If you're an elitist Tani then I would be too... And Woot EBA!! Though I have routinely been going through my entire farm for a long time and put any male lower then End variation up for stud. Though at times it gets hard to keep up with this month after month and no I don't put them for dirt cheap. I take into account other studs of the market, the animals training, color and eventing score when determining the price. And of course it might have been reasonable two weeks ago when I put it on the market in the first place but all that can change in a day... However, vary rarely have some of my studs for rarer species of animals been used. My rhinos, never used! Tarsiers? Same.

-cough- hrmm yes, back to business. There are good points to both sides. Nothing but End and AE's having any value.. I remember when I first got the psature, I took me forever to be able to afford my first very rare horse. -happy sigh- I was soooo proud of her even though she was only a O/VR. In fact, so proud of that horse that I have kept that bloodline open and going on my farm this entire time (yes, I'm sentimental!) I miss those days when animals had more value and we didn't get hundreds of thousands of dollars with each exam.

I think I'm rambling.. inevitable at 3 am I think...

[sandtiger]

Wow I think this thread has turned from an argument and protest about rarely any updates to the ethics of breeding on SBF. I am not even going to ask, but I must say that I believe Vitani, Keema and Misty have a point, but I also lean for Cocodri's point. I just wanted to point out the escalating in this thread.

[Vitani]

Mmm'k...I'm too tired to make any valid arguments or whatever, so I'm not gonna try....




But I will concentrate long enough to interject my two cents on the FSS....I don't see it as hoarding in the slightest - I have several FSS animals given to me by Amanda and other players, and some that I've included of my own choice. I'm not the only one...I don't need to list all the names, because its not something thats hard to enquire about. We know who we are.

And I don't see it as a bad thing that those animals deemed critical aren't widely spread among the players. While preserving the variation, the intent is still to preserve its rarity. The original creators may one day return, after all. Jinx certainly did!

I can't speak for anybody else, but I have no personal plans to quit. And if hell does freeze over one day....There are safety measures in place to ensure not only my creations, but those in the FSS on my farm go to trustworthy 'caretakers' that I, without any doubt, know will afford them the same respect I do.

Thus the variations survive and the cycle continues.





Amanda may be many things....But selfish and greedy are definately not some of them, and I am absolutely honoured to call her my friend. The trust of a player like her is a gift to be cherished, and if it wasn't for her and a few other very special friends.....I might have quit long ago....

I really, really don't like bickering.
I come here to chill out and forget that sometimes RL sucks. I'm sure I'm not alone in that?



*wipes crumbs off her lap and goes to take inventory of a warehouse full of eggs making disturbing, very un-egg-like sounds*

[Queso]

Wow, there is a really great discussion going on in here!

I agree with Tani, Misty, and Keema for the most part, so I won't waste you time repeating what they've already said. I do think that we should make more of an effort to make the game more newbie friendly. Lately I've been putting most of my males who are under thr up for public stud, especially the species that have been more neglected. I'm also trying to get breeding pairs so I can help repopulate some of the species that have almost disappeared. The diversity of the animals was one of the main things that attracted me to SBF, but right now you can't buy 80% of the species on the marketplace.

[Jinxx]

Well, I'm not completely back but I log in regularly.

SBF needs updates and yes, doesn't get them often. This is not the reason I faded away. Real life things going on in my life put the topper on overbreeding of my creations.

Have I toted breeding responsibly? Yes. I'd much prefer almost no breeding or studding of my creations but once in game I have little control over it so I have always asked for responsiblity. Why? Example: Friesians. I created, someone imported and immediately started breeding and selling them. In short order everyone had them. The original pair went to Florida without one offspring because EVERYONE had them, for a time all decended from the second pair of foundies imported. A number of my other creations headed that way too. So I have a reason to feel the way I do.

Do I consider myself an 'elitist'? No. I do however want my AEs only bred for replacement. I have always felt that way. Personally, if I didn't want them kept rare/special I'd make everything at low rarities. I do share them with others because I'm not greedy. Should everyone have one? No. Again, I'd make it low rarity if I wanted them available to everyone. I want my rarer creations treated with some respect.

Most of the allure of SBF for me is the creation of species/variations/colors/details. Training/exams, events, graphics, etc don't equal into the equation for me. If the graphics never get updated I probably would make mental note of it but nothing more. I want to see rarer varieties harder to acquire. For them to be something players have to work for and not have handed to them.

Personally I don't feel there's enough challenge to SBF. Those challenges there are people overcome by someone sending them enough money to get most if not all the enclosures or people handing them everything instead of pointing them in the right direction to work for it themselves.

[Vitani]

Lol, were your ears burning Jinxxy?



*hugs and gives happy faced cookies*

[~~rose~~]

When I was first on here, I had absolutely no idea what to do, and a few MONTHS later I went onto the forum. It made the game so much funner to be able to talk to people. For a few months after that, every time that a new player was created, I sent them a message to their farm welcoming them, and giving them directions. A few months after that, I stopped because I wasn't getting any feedback, and the new players never appeared again. I think that we do need something to help out the newbies better.