SBF Gets Left in the Dust

[her]

Okay guys, I'll try to make this as nice as possible.

I have been playing on the game for over 2 yrs, and it hasn't changed a bit. All the missing pics, broken links and "Comming Soons!" aren't here.

And, I know that MANY people on here poor their hard earned money into this game, but for what? It seems like Orbis games is taking our money and running. Sure, it costs a little to rent server space, and to pay salaries, (and half those salaries aren't even for SBF) but if players put money into a game shouldn't we expect something back? I personally would like to see old players and animals purged from the game (they are just taking up server space) more mod support on the forums, and updates!

When was the last update on the homepage????? Oh lets see maybe
7/30/2007
Excuse me????? for 3 YEARS orbis games has ignored us! And I am tired of it! Meanwhile VHR and VHR2 are constanty updated, have huge MOD support and get orbis's full attention! If Orbis no longer wants SBF don't leave us in the dust! Go ahead and refund our money sell the game to another company that actually cares!!

Sorry for the rant guys but please post comments.

[wolfgirl159357]

i totally agree adn perosnally i think that SBF is the best out of the OB games

[Alabama]

I have to agree on some parts and disagree on others.

Yes, it does seem SBF has been ignored for quite a while, however, a good part of that is because it doesn't support itself. VHR and VP practically support every game Orbis Worlds has, so they get the most attention to keep that money coming in. This is just good business sense. And to be honest, even they have problems, broken links, misspellings, etc that have been around since the beginning.

There are no salaries to pay. John and Nef both were looking for other jobs because the games on a whole do not always make enough money to support themselves, let alone pay a salary. John and Nef are the only ones to work on coding for any of the games. The games don't pay enough to hire an outside coder. Game admin is all volunteer with no pay. The servers costs in excess of 3 thousand dollars each month. SBF shares a server with other Orbis World games.

Old animals and players do not take up server space. Server space is used when people click on things, take turns and the memory has to be changed. Same with older players. They take up memory, not server and memory isn't a problem. As long as they aren't changed, they don't use up server space.

VHR2 has had about the same updates ratio as SBF. It's been about 2 years since the last update for them, with the exception of adding the myrtlewood client. But adding that made and makes money from the Myrtlewood plush toy company. Mod support for VHR2 consists of myself and one other mod, on a part time basis. Most of the mods can't even log into VHR2. VHR2 averages at most 6 or 7 players at a time. Its forum rarely gets used.

VHR, at its least active has no less than 15 players, that's in the middle of the night. In the busiest times, weekend evenings, it can have upwards of 100 players at any one time, with at least 20 of them in chat. During the day, there's usually about 30 players on at a time, all the time. This means on a daily basis, there are hundreds of different players logging into the game. There are 3 VHR only mods for the game and they are usually on in the evening and weekends, when it's the busiest. The other 6 or 7 float between it and the other games. On a daily basis, the VHR forums see 220 new posts and 16 new topics. VHR gets major updates about once a year. Other updates through the year are generally based on this one update, changing things to work better, removing things for the same reason.

VP usually starts my morning with about 10 players and goes up from there. From late afternoon until about 10 at night, there's usually between 20 and 40 players, sometimes more. It has 1 game only mod, the rest of us splitting time between it and the other games. Its forums see about 100 new posts and 8 new topics each day. Outside of the ability for VP players to buy their own breeds, VP hasn't seen a major update in well over a year.

SBF mod support consists mostly of me and Kholran, though most of the other mods log in whenever we have a problem that needs more opinions. There are actually 6 admins on the SBF forums. SBF averages about 4 or 5 players on at one time. Many times when I look in, there's no one online and no changes to the forums for hours. The forums get about 50 new posts per day and 2 new topics.

In order to sell something, it has to have someone interested in buying. To be honest, a game that has a regular player base of less than 50 (probably closer to 30), that is not be able to pay its own server bill and you can see that it not many would be interested even if Nef did decide to sell. There would be no refund of monies if the game was closed. Especially on SBF where sponsor upgrades don't exist, players have received what they paid for. So instead of closing down the game, Nef pays for it to stay up by using money VHR and VP generate.

That being said, John and Nef have been working on some updates for SBF. That was the reason I was asking for what players would like to see added to the game http://www.sandboxfarm.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=22156 . Because John did find a job elsewhere, his time is limited to work on the game and on a daily basis, Nef is working on problems that crop up on all the games: Glitches that are being exploited, people forgetting login information, doing PayPal, handling the things game admin can't.

Yes, it is frustrating that players put time and money into the game, but don't see updates, but in all, SBF doesn't pay, so from a business standpoint, it can't get the attention the games that do pay get. There are upgrades coming, but it's going to take some time.

[wolfgirl159357]

wow Ala thats a lot but it does sseem that a lot! of new players log in and register but only about 2% of those new players log back in a second time and become older players like Koneko. And its quite upsetting considering that one of my friends who i told about SBF signed on adn made a account but then decided the game was boring adn hasnt signed on since and i keep trying to tell her its fun you just have to know where to look.

[*~Trent~*]

[Nefertete]

Hello guys, unfortunately what Alabama says is true, however this does not mean we do not think of Sandboxfarm often. I would like to put together a 'task team' of ways that you think this game could be better to attract more users. This game was an experiment that we could afford to make, yet it is still fun! John and I discuss this game often and things we could do with it, unfortunately John has a full time+ contract job at the moment so I do not foresee much happening in the next month. As soon as we can, we could do some fun modifications and update the game!

[Nefertete]

Also, the date on the updates page is incorrect. Need to remind John to list updates when he makes them

[wolfgirl159357]

that is wonderful Nef.

[SomebodyDude]

Nef? Woha... Never even seen you before... WOW

*shakes head* Sorry! Ok back to subject...

As far as I can see Wolfgirl is right. Newer players get confused and give up on it. I didn't even know a bout the forms until about a month after I joined! The 'Help' section needs to be a little more detailed if ya` ask me.

[*~Trent~*]

i made a guide in Chicken Chatter about how to stay on the good side of most players... i notice that the noobs that stay on the good side of older players stay on longer... i think that its true with most orbis games.
on VHR2 at least, if i was very nice to the noob instead of ignoring them out of annoyment, they would keep playing more about a month or two longer than the annoying ones i ignored [well, tried to ignore]
i think that some players should help make the help section, and give tips and other stuff. maybe there would be like a "Wolfgirls Corner" or something to the help section. most subjects in help are wayy to broad. it took me a bit of time to figure everything out...
but can someone tell me, do animals age by days or exams? still havent gotten that one figure out...

[Alabama]

If you want to create another guide, and put it in the help section. I'd suggest doing it like on VHR forums.. One thread that's stickied that covers the basics, but links to other threads that go into details on the various parts of SBF. Just let me or Khol know when you have a completed thread and we'll sticky it. Could even start just by asking players for their input.

edited to add.. Actually might be better in the FAQ section. Here's what I'm thinking about http://www.virtualhorseranch.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=134847

[Ferox]

Maybe the simplest thing that can be done to add appeal is to add a default image to all the species: Just an uncoloured lie art that players can colour themselves and start to visualise their animal. Makes it more than just a colour and a variation. You already have a number of artists who I'm sure wouldn't mind contributing to the game. This is a sandbox after all.

[Queso]

I agree with Ferox, having a default image would help keep players coming back. I tried to get some of my friends to join, but they all said that it was boring not being able to see their animal. I would be happy to create some basic linearts if you want Nef :3

[Cocodri]

I like all the Orbis games, but SBF has kept me interested the longest - I think because of the variety of animals and our ability to contribute to the game.

Thank you Alabama and Nef for the detailed and interesting explanation. I certainly understand where you are coming from, having run my own websites many of which made little or nothing, despite popularity with a small group of people. The bottom line is you have to make a living, or at least enough to break even because it is without a doubt WORK however enjoyable it may be at times. And it is only natural to spend more time on games/websites that make the most money.

I personally like the sandbox form of the game - where I can play for free and have a full experience, but where I can also spend money on the game and feel like part of its creators when and if I happen to have the money to spend.

*sigh* Donning my Flame Retardant suit and preparing to make everyone at SBF hate me.

Cocodri's rant

Here is just MHO about why SBF is stagnating.

The newbie starts, rescues a few overpop animals and then discovers they cannot purchase any animals of any kind on the marketplace at any price they can reasonably afford. (This weekend there are literally less than 100 animals for sale, of all species, on the marketplace.)

If they do figure out how to get a few animals, naturally they breed them. Then try to sell the babies, or put the males at stud. Then someone writes them and reads them the riot act about don't breed, don't sell. Well if you cannot breed or sell your animals...just what IS there to do on the game? If you cannot buy any of those cool animals you see unless you buy tokens and buy foundation pairs of your own, why stay? If you are a bit shy like me (it's true, really) and would rather just buy on the market place than write total strangers asking if you can purchase an animal from them - especially after the first few people write to screech at you about over breeding - why stay? It wouldn't even occur to most newbies that they have to find what they want and then write the creator and beg for an animal or watch the forum for "sales" where you have to go bid.

The game is stagnant because some players have decided there shall be no breeding and no selling of animals. Well, you can't have an economy without a circulation of money and goods. Sure, you don't want to look around and find 1000000 of your AE horse on the marketplace. But why discourage someone from having 10 or 20 Arabs, tBreds or QHs and breeding and selling them? How does that hurt anyone?

If you want to keep your variety all to yourself forever and ever then save up and make it an AE, if it is lower than that assume people are going to breed and sell them - SHARE and be happy to SHARE. Do you think QH breeders in the real world want only their friends to own QH? NO - they spend millions promoting the breed and trying to get everyone to think if they want a horse they should have a QH and then encourage breeders to sell foals to make that possible. THAT is how the marketplace works in the real world. THAT is how REAL ranchers make money - by breeding and selling their livestock, not hoarding it.

Look at the Variation Restoration project - why have so many varieties up and disappeared? Because their makers only allowed two or three people to have them, and then when they all quit playing - the variety died out.

I know a lot of you are firing up your flame throwers right now. But what you don't know is I am not alone in feeling this way. I just happen to be crazy enough to say it "out loud" in the forum and also to now and then breed and sell animals low enough for even newbies to buy and to put my own animals at stud. I'd probably breed and sell even more if I didn't have to put up with messages telling me what I can do with MY animals every time I do it.

I happen to disagree with the no breed, no sell culture. But I also come to SBF to play and relax and finding bossy messages in my inbox does not contribute to that.

If you pay to make a variation AE or Threatened or Endangered - they still count as AE or Threatened or Endangered towards your farms prestige no matter how many billions are out there on the marketplace. So why does it matter if they are "overbred"? Because some people want to create an artificial inflation of prices. Once in a blue moon you can breed one foal and sell it for 500 million or so and the rest of the time...what? Again - creating stagnation, both in the game economy and in your own playing experience. You can't turn, breed, or sell, so you get bored and quit. Newbies cannot purchase animals, so they get bored and quit. And then here we sit with like ten active players.

I'm just sayin'. You play the way you want to play, I am not passing judgment or telling anyone what to do (although there are players here who do both of those things). But this "style" or whatever you want to call it - I think is why SBF doesn't attract and keep players.

Okay, okay, end rant. I'll be out of town the next two days so maybe when I get back it will be safe for me to peek into the forums.

P.S.
And if you need any art for the game - feel free to ask. I play here, I benefit from people who go to Color-Your-Own for their line art, I'd be happy to contribute artwork at no charge.

[sandtiger]

*Has no pitchfork or flamethrower at hand and does not care, simply shrugs.*

I think Cocodri summed up what I somewhat feel, and it was pretty self-explanatory. Also we might be in the dust compared to many of the other Orbis Games, but we don't really stand on are own two legs completely over here either if you get where I'm talking from. Through we should be happy for what we have, we could have no mods around here and chaos and doom and arguments rampant around the place. I'm just saying.

*Grabs a whole bunch of armor to protect from ranters.*



~*Sandtiger*~