Crushed!!! :(

[Jinxx]

[Tanitsja]

again i am sorry for your loss, and there are dogs ment to protect livestock from bears, but there are special ways of raising these and rules maintaining to working dogs even still

they are not just stray dogs, and these livestocks are secluded to sertaint areas also not just roaming freely, so even still the owner have a responsibility

as the owner its your responsibility to do the training needed, and make sure your dogholding is within the law. Your neighbours shouldnt need to tell you to keep the dogs to your property, you as the dog owner if you think they have bears who need fended of, should aproached them to clear the ok on using dogs as the means to fend of bears in the neighbourhood.

So again i am sorry for your loss, but this was your responsibility, and if you need protection going out then take them out when you can supervise them and make sure they keep on your property, but that is still not a reason to let them roam freely when you aint out. And a fence will keep the dog in, and the bears out btw

And further your arguments totaly flawed, have you asked them if they mind the bears? and just because they had dogs roaming free on their property, if those dogs kept on their own property thats their perogative, it dont mean that anyone and everyones dogs can run free on their property. And have you considered the had aspect here, maybe there is a reason they no longer have dogs, something may have changed.

In the end though, blaming others dont change anything, you cant use the excuse that because everyone else go jump of the bridge i can too when it comes to the law. It may make them hypocrites at best, but thats no reason for you to sink to that level, sorry its not. If you are to keep dogs, its your responsibility as the owner to keep updated on the laws for such in your country and area. And in US in most cases the law is that you have to keep your dogs on your own property unless you have authorisation for them to go onto someone elses property, if not the dogs are tresspassing, and tresspassing is illigal.

Your dogholding in all likelyhood broke the law, personaly i disagree with their solution to the problem (I'd just run the dog down to the pound), but they in all likelyhood was within the law, and such in their right to shoot it. Personaly i disagree in such lawgiving, because i think its more corect the laws we have were i come from where you have to try to leash the dog and hand it over to the police first. But in the end thats US law, and you as the dog owner was responsible for knowing this and such keeping your dogs from breaking the law, and such preventing this needing to happen in the first place.

In the end I understand your sad, but your parents, because its the adults who are the owners in a family, are responsible in this case if they broke the law by allowing your dogs to roam outside without supervision, training or any type of restrictions to keep them on their own property. And there is no but's, if's and however's in this world that can change that, the law is the law, and its part of responsible dog owning to keep within it.

And dont tell me i dont understand dangers of wildlife, I'm a lisenced hunter. And where i grew up we had TONs of moose around our doors, and yes some of those can be mean spirited, and with their size they sertainly is dangerous, no one i know use dogs though to keep them away, quite oposite as we dont want them agitated we're likely to draw in our dogs even from the dogyard if we see the moose are disturbed. If they pose a problem we alert the corect authorities who can come in and try herd them away, or if needed the police can authorise to have them put down out of hunting season. Other then that, we seek indoor when they come around, and such avoids conflicts with them, as well educate ourself and kids on how to behave around them to not get attacked. I more then once had to stop and slowly retreat because i happened to close upon a moose when out walking, both with and without dogs, where i also have to draw in the dog to quiet it down to not make the situation more dangerous. I also know plenty of other people who have been in dangerous encounters with moose and even in some cases had to run for shelter when all other methods didnt work, i even know someone who been so close that they felt the rush of air as the moose jumped over them.

Oh just as a btw on the subject of bears, i plan to move across the atlantic to be with my better half, and he live dead in midle of a bear area, and he and his family hunt bears, so guess what...I also know people who had issues and close encounters with bears
So again your presuming without knowing facts, and jumping to conclusions about what others may know or think. And doing so can be dangerous because it may lend things to seem backwards to what they are.


As for solution, nope i wouldnt use my dogs because i'd not want to unesicary endanger them any more then my kids. I'd put up a 6'5'' fence around some of my property for the dogs. Not let small children outside unobserved, and educate the bigger kids, this worked just fine both for my fam and for my BF's fam, who both live in game heavy areas without restricting the older kids in their play, cause both me and bf grew up runing around the forest with friends even if there was game there, humans co exsited with nature for 1000's of years just fine by learning to know, understand and respect it.

And other then that I'd spend some well used time geting to know the bears who had teritory on my property, figure out who of them was dangerous and which was peacefull. And then use the hunting season to track up the individuals that showed undesired game behaviour (figth rather then flight), so as to be rid of the problem more permanently, and keep problem animals from reproducing teaching undesired behaviour to their own offspring again. By consequently selecting out the families who aint afraid of humans, you slowly gain a population of animals which are less of a danger to humans.

In all the time here i known you as nothing but nice and caring, and you said you were conserned for your other dog. So when i pass on information like this of law and responsibility its so that you can digest it and take it into consideration to maybe keep your other dog safe by adjusting your dog holding, you may not have known the law before, but your parents should have and should have thougth you about them, they obviously havent, nor to try see things from different sides. Have you never heard that a friend is someone who will tell you the truth even if its unpleasant?

I'd rather people told me if i made a mistace, so i can try to prevent doing it again, instead of constantly repeating it, someone who allowed me to do that would be doing me a bearfavor, what kind of friend would do that...

if i disliked someone though, then i'd ignore them, smile nod and walk on, not bothering to try to pass on information...because i could care less that their lack of so hurt them.

[White Frost]

I have to disagree with you tanitsja a fence wont keep bears out. I know this for a fact as they will tear them down and get in they can also climb over it. Anyways she wasn't asking for if it was legal or not what the person did and she didn't ask to be lectured all she did was post what had happened to her dog.
She is just trying to make her point that she felt that her dog wasn't doing any harm and that before shooting her he should have told them. I know in a few states you have to do that before you do anything to the dog I am not sure where Bratterratt lives nor do I care but it could be one of those states.
I don't get why everyone made this such a big deal. Yeah maybe it was irresponsibility that caused this but give the girl a break if she wanted people to lecture her she would have said so.

I am very sorry for your loss Bratterratt.

[Bratterratt]

Ok. My dad was outside with my brothers working in the front yard. Our neighbor opened his door and walked outside. Eika ran down the driveway to say hi. There was a gun shot. My brothers called Eika but she wouldn't come. Our neighbor suddenly drove up a trail in his ranger. What other proof do we need. The dog never came back.

[Tanitsja]

moose can get over fences as well, its not that, but they are less likely too bother, And last i checked most US people say grizly to brown bear, and bear to black bear. There is bear where i grew up, luckily not localy to where i grew up but some communities over they have bear, and this is brown bear which is a cousin to the grizly. The fence i got in mind is a miniateur replica of what they use in zoo's to keep in brown bears some places, and while its just a mini replica so it wouldnt be a 100% sure defence, it sertainly would be enough of a hinder to make the bear think twice. Now if your saying the smaller more mellow black bear is more likely to go to the agressive intiative of passing a fence, then the bigger brown bear...? well of course it would be posible, but it do not make sence to me that they would, not when they could just as easily walk around it..

and the deal is that dog in all likelyhood is dead, but she still have another dog she can save from meeting the same fate by changing

i am glad to hear some states over there have the sence of warning, but the fact is by all that i heard in most places its not all that sencefull, i never said i agree with the law...

however i was brougth up in a way were when something happened we discussed it, discussed the why and through chanelising understanding and solution that was one way to get through things as well...one i feel was corect and i am gratefull for being raised into

instead of going something bad happened, lets sit down and just be sad, by all means its good to grieve, then lets talk about it and understand why things happen on good and bad, and if we had a cause in it then lets find it and mend it

she just lost a dog, and now is afraid for her next dog with good reason, and that means looking into how she can keep this from being repeated, which means looking on the whole situation. The dogs obviously do anoy the neighbours, and she should investigate laws, so she do know where she stand, specialy if there is some states with sane enough laws to have a rigth of warning first, because that will strengthen her defence...thats something she can confront them with, so next time they give a warning first instead of just shooting without asking.

and ironicaly if we hadnt discussed this, would you have thougth to bring that up?

i'd go face them anyhow to get the body back and burry it properly, as well have a chat with them to figure out where we all stood on things..also is it posible they hit the dog with the car first? and just is too coward to admit it not wanting vet bills so they just put her down themself?


I am not meaning to make a huge deal, i am discussing it because i belive that being healthy and constructive...and in some cases it can wait to do so, but in this case the longer the wait the bigger the risk to her other dog, and it sertainly is not going to help any kid who just lost one dog to loose another in the same horible way

you are of course entitled to your view, but my belif is that its good to discuss things, its good to talk about them, and good to get it out of your system analysing it..and in the cases where illness is not behind a death its good to discuss if something could have been done different to prevent it, so as to try to hinder it from happening again...at the end after discussing it back and forth you may end on that nothing different should or could have been done, but at least then through talking about it you processed it

and discusing it may drag out details and facts you didnt think about to begin with, which can help you in reaching an understanding as well. Someone saying to you but by what you say then so and so, and then so and so can be the thing you need to rise to think about things and either say, yeah your rigth or...hey no wait because this and that also was a factor...in which cause you can counter ok but thats different, and in that case you may want to consider so or so


like in this case, learn the laws both to make sure she know her responsibilities, as well as rights, so she can secure her other dog against her neighbours so she wont have to be conserned all the time. Which sertainly can be done by her parents going over asking them what happened, why, and say we're sorry for this and that, we shouldnt have so and so, but acording to law then you also should have so and so first, and while we will strive to remedy on our side, then we also expect you to follow the law on your side, if not we will file charges against you next time. Thus both apologising if the dogs bothered the neighbours, but making it perfectly clear they wont put up with having their dogs killed in this maner in the future.

[Fireflake]

I agree with Tanitsja and I also want to add that from the neighbor's point of view. I have been bitten by dogs left running loose before and even in my own yard have had my dog threatened (To the point of having to rush her to the veterinarian). If I had a gun and a dog I didn't know was running toward me/ my dog I might be inclined to shoot. Not necessarily at the dog but possibly into the air to scare it off.
Also have you gone to talk to those neighbors and see what they say? If not I suggest you do so before you start pointing fingers at them. Your dog could very well be safe somewhere off in the woods. All the evidence you have presented is circumstantial. The gun shot was not necessarily aimed at your dog, but it might have been frightened and run off. I also strongly recommend you get some type of fence to contain your other dog or only let it outside on leash. Not only is it dangerous to other people and animals, your dog could run into the street and be killed.