Dog Training?

[rockyBalboa]

So I was just wondering about what all you guys think about this question:

What do you think is the quickest/most efficient way to potty train a puppy?

Please post. I just want to know. Thanks!
rockyBalboa

[Tanitsja]

well ours really potty trained when they leave the kennel, they are born to a box who have blankets above newspaper, then when they get big enough move out into a room of newspaper. Later on then that when they get big enough to go outside, we start slowly reducing the quantity of floor who got paper on it.

1. they are used to doing it on the paper, everywhere else smell nice and clean (they dont like sleeping in their dirt anymore then we do)

2. because they dont like it in the dirt anymore then we they learn if they poop outside after they slept before geting a meal, then it dont smell in their room. So yeah as a rutine during day once we hear they wake up after the age they are old enough to go outdoor in the yard now and again, we always take them outside at once when they wake up.

3. In the end they only got a bit of paper in front of the door, during the day unless we take them inside the house to interact with them, they are generaly free to be in or out as they please for as long as they are awake (when they fall asleep we take them in and close the door untill they wake up again)

so by the end of their training we're up really early in the morning to let them out, and have them out just before we go to bed ourself, there just a little pee on the paper and generaly one or two puppies of all from 7 to 11 who havent made it through the nigth without pooping on the paper

of course acidents happen inside, however this is effectivly cleaned up after we if posible have put the puppy at least over on the newspaper, and use a soap to remove all smell, if not the smell is likely to make them repeat it on the same spot as it smell already of their pee or poop

so by 12 weeks through a natural progress they really clean by own prefrence of not wanting to sleep in their own feases? (not sure if its the rigth spelling)

i know i heard old tricks of smaking them on the ass and take them outside or whatnot, we never did this with ours, never was needed, we only got one word we use for wrong and its No, no lecture no nothing, a low strict No is more then enough, in the cases where it isnt we use the dog language of turning them on their back and just holding them down till they submit by accepting being put in the position, then we generaly tell them they are good dogs and scratch their belly or whatnot (point proven and they accepted it, no need to push it)

otherwise we empasis on good behaviour by peting, treats and talking in ligth voices when praising them. Our own dogs are working dogs, and everyone who buy puppies are generaly happy sending their recomendations to friends, or calling back when they need a new dog themself.

so i'd generaly say try keep newspapper around wherever the puppy are kept up when sleeping or whatnot, so it get used to doing its thing on that when it wakes up, then as it gets older roam freely or whatnot, move the paper towards the door, and otherwise try to watch out for catching when it wake up (sounds and whatnot) then take it outdoor imidiatly. It will soon learn the benefit for its nose to want out, and well having the paper avaliable if you dont make it quick enough, means its easier for you to clean it up after (just make sure to remove the metalpins that keep the paper togheter so it dont get it in the paws). Oh and remember you want it to do it on the paper, so no telling it off for not holding it of course puppies dont have the same control of their bladder as adult dogs, so if you the owner isnt quick enough which is not posible always, then its just natures way and no one to blame if you got to go you got to go, so positive reinforsement of doing it outside or on the paper, and move them to wherever you want them to be without no punishment when accidents happen, + clean up so there is no smell left over from it

[rockyBalboa]

Yeah that makes sense. thanks! Any other opinions? I want to see different people's methods! =)

[Cecelia]

Hmm.... some dogs do better than others potty training.Crate training is a popular and very good method but I don't prefer it.sorry Tanitsja

It depends on the person's time and energy as well.If you have a couple of evenings to spend with the puppy that will progress the training,
You will need baby gates set up to block the puppy in one room.Make sure you keep your eyes on the puppy at all times even if you're hiding behind a newspaper.The family room would work best to be the training room.Watch the dog and as soon as they start to squat make a loud sharp ahhh.Make it quick and if you have an overly submissive pup different measures will need to be taken.Then take them outside to the designated bathroom spot.After a while they will understand and eventually will run to the door and may even be trained to ring a bell when they need out.

[Tanitsja]

our dogs is of strong lines, they generaly pshycical strong, we want to preserve this because a well trained pshycical strong dog makes for a dog that perform better in so far that it has a strong bellif in itself

as such 1 they aint easily spooked, and we dont allow for any behaviour around them that is intended on scaring them, we dont shout or rush behaviour around them, but always deal with them calmly. As said though we're the breeders when they are newly born you cant really expect them to potty train so we potty train them as a progress as they slowly grow old enough to learn, and at 12 weeks we generaly deliver already potty trained puppies, who can sit and lay on comand, as well as come on the shout or whistle to do so.

All training is empasised around positive experience to raise calm steady dogs, which means they are more steady in any and all situations, be it work wise, socialisation, shows or whatever we need them to do, because they belive they are the top of the world, and act likewise showing no signs of insecurity in themself. As such any visitors we have who shout up for any reason or behaves in rushing ways gets told to not do so, and to calm down to not stress the dogs, or send out wrong signals. Sometimes patience pay out in the long run, taking a few weeks on training is well worth it for a dog you may have up to 15 years if you are lucky.

Coming from a home where we breed top performing dogs, around the consept of preserving the dogs calm and self belif, i'd have to say the same back to you Cecilia, that i am sorry but I stronly disagree in the method, you should never shout around a dog, or empasis any sound that migth spook it or feel uncomfortable. Yes you should if posible try to get it outside, but rush calmly As for ringing a bell I do not see the need, as most dogs are more then capable of alerting you through their own means of noise -> barking by the door. A puppy is a baby in many means, and in general what we use to say here is that you should take that into the equation when you get it, which means it will need a lot of your time when it grows up, if you dont have that time, then dont get a puppy.

[Cecelia]

I understand your point of view and you do have to be careful not to make the do afraid but once they go in the designated spot excessive praise is necessary.Different methods work for different people.And I din't mean a shout just a firm noise similar to a no but diffrent like the yip the mother dog makes to her pups.I wouldn't do anything to make the dog lose their trust of humans and if the dog is already fearful your approach would work better in that situation.

[Tanitsja]

cant say i recall it, only time our broods vocalise clearly with them is when they goten old enough to run freely in the dogyard, then they wait till the first moose shows its face by the fence, and they start the barking choir, keep barking untill they sure the puppies got it, then they lay back and just watch them do the job

otherwise communication mostly go through physical language, untill they pretty much find them to much a hazle after a few weeks and only reluctantly wants to stick around to feed them, before abandoning room and puppy teeths post haste.

our problem as such in training the dogs is that because we have the oposite on our hands, ie very strong lines generaly yilding dominant dogs we have to get it rigth, and work with the dogs natural tendencies is the way that yields the less bumps in the road, ie pretty much all basic training is based on the dogs natural instinct, from moving papers to the door, making sure they get out rigth after they sleep (as they usualy then wants to poop) it dont take long from we start having them regulary out till they will be making loads of noise when waking up to alert us they are awake now and want out

so our experience is given a choise they absoloutly prefer to go outside, and it do not take long to train them on this, however as said a puppy do not have the same bladder control as an adult, so its a good thing if you can teach them to go on a paper infront of the door when you aint quick enough (instead of randomly throughout the house), and not all of them are able to hold it through the nigth either

on the other hand these are very young puppies, your experience probably is on older puppies, i never had experience with any puppies above 12 weeks for this merely because all our puppies have all their basic training by the time they leave our kennel at 12 weeks onwards

[rockyBalboa]

What breeds do you breed/raise?

[Tanitsja]

my mom breeds huntingdogs for moosehunting, in northern europe its usual to use dogs hunting due terrain, tradition, and laws, in fact you are required in my country and i think the same goes for at least one or two others as well, to have an aproved dog either on your team, or have a signed agreement with an aproved team (handler - dog) to even be allowed to big game hunt

the dogs sort under i think its group 5 or 7 in FCI, though generaly refered to as a subgroup within the group with the label elkdogs which refers to no less then 7-8 breeds, (2-3 russian breeds, 1 finish, 2 sweedish, and 2 norwegian breeds)

with a predator population on the rise, its also becoming more and more popular to bear test the dogs now, ie a staged meeting in zoo facilty type where there is a safety fence in place, just to measure the dogs behaviour wheter they act the same as on deer and elk, or if they back down. With the aim of getin aproved teams for searching bear where needed, ie in some areas they are slowly starting to allow hunt, while in other areas lisences to take out specific problem animals may be issued at need.

[rockyBalboa]

That's really cool. So, with bear testing, what is the point? Just to see what they will do? What happens if the back down and what happens if the don't back down?

[Tanitsja]

basicaly if they back down they failed, if not they get a paper i think on saying that they passed

its a test of their pshycical strength, wheter or not they get scared of the bear

a scared dog wont be as motivated to do its work as an unscared dog, the dogs have hunting instincts and enjoy hunting, work should be fun for the dog, obviously that aint so if the dog is scared its not enjoying itself and wont be motivated

however its not just an issue for direct bearhunting, if the dog is very scared of bear, it migth even be reluctant to hunt moose in terain that smell of bear

example is someone we sold a dog to (who is now joyously happy) wanted a new dog, because his old dog would hunt all but in the hunting season, the moment he doned hunt clothes and took out the rifle it ran home, reason : it was shot scared, basicaly it feared the sound of the shot so badly it wouldnt hunt when he brougth the rifle

we use the oposite on sheeps, we get them sheep tested, by expers who have lisence to do so puting an electric collar on them, then they are released into the sheep pen, if they try to hunt the sheep or show to strong interest in them they get a jolt of electricity. They have to show neglect of interest, or frigth from the sheep on two different ocations to pass this test, upon which they get a certificate that they are so called "sheep free", which basicaly mean they wont hunt sheep. Basicaly what the dog learns is that sheeps are evil beeings that can hurt me if i get to close so i should stay away from them.

[rockyBalboa]

Oh I see. Sounds like it would be pretty cool to see.
Sorry, I'm probably really annoying with all my questions. I'm just curious though cuz I don't hunt and am not often around hunting dogs. But it sure sounds like you have alot of fun!

[Tanitsja]

thats ok, feel free to ask, i grown up with them, even before my mom and stephdad got togheter, and she fixed up his dog, and started breeding, i had uncles and a grandfather who hunted and kept dogs

my granddad did have a dog that wasnt always entirely good, however for some reason she and me was best friends ever since i was pretty much a baby untill they had to put her down due her age and illness

dont recal for sertaint what was wrong, however i think it migth been age and her sences failing her making her more insecure as she didnt feel totaly in control in some situations, but yeah though she had been sort of iffy with some persons, with me a kid of all things she presumable had all love and patience and never displayed any iffy behaviour

and well when we moved i was only 9 i think, and my now stephdad was the communities handyman, and was the one who helped fix things in the house they rented to my mom, and well he had the puppy, rescently got it, and my sis fell totaly in love with her, some 3 years later i know for sure we lived with him as its when she had her first litter, was me and him who went driving through the nigth over to the neighbour country to breed her. We kept two of the males, because my mom and him couldnt agree on which to keep, "her" male became the alpha, and i ended up adopting the other male lol. They both passed away this last year, "my" male was loosing his scences and was put down last summer when i came home, and his brother was put down between christmas and easter this winter. So they reached a healthy age of about 12.5 and 13 years without ever geting that dreary look that a lot of dogs of this breed get around 7-9 years where they pretty much start fading all over in their fur, gain weigth, and generaly look ver weary old, instead of just old (dunno something about their face or their eyes or something)

[rockyBalboa]

Well that is really cool. I always tell myself that someday I am going to do that kind of thing, but right now I am just learning and trying to get really smart and learn as much as I can. I want to be able to do it responsibly and as carefully as I can and maybe become pretty reputable. but yeah...
That is sad about your two males. I am very sorry. I don't know what it is like to put down a pet so I can't really sympathize, and I can't imagine how bad that would feel. But at least theres still plenty of time to make new pet friends as they come along!

[Tanitsja]

i aint overly emotional, i lay more to the logic side of the scale as such (not that i am cold, just not often very very strongly feeling emotions, and really not comfortable with the situations where i feel the preasure of them from sorounding people)

As such I havent really grieved, yeah sure it wasnt fun puting down the first of them where i was present, but i was glad that it was just me and my mom, not like the time we put down his mother where my stephdad and sis was along and their tears was runing, which sort of affected the other two of us as well. This way we where more able to keep control and focus on that it was the best for him, and to try to not think on being sad (such being less sad), with the effect that we would display less sadness to him, and be sure that he could go peacefully instead of feeling disturbed of his humans showing and smelling overly strongly of sad or uneasy feelings.

Once he was gone it was over, within the minuites of his death i pretty much had let go and accepted he was gone really. We rolled him in a blanket that used to lay in the litter box when he was little, and then put plastic bags around him, put him in the trunk and went shoping some things we needed since we where in the city anyway (we didnt want to go before as it ment parking the car with a live dog in the summer heat for some amount of time, and obviously thats not good for the dog)

I known "my" dog litterary from the moments of his conseption to his death, yet i know its a natural thing, and most of all what is important is that he has it good and that we didnt drag his life on when it was his time with the pain that would have caused him, he was old had a good long life and it was his time, now he is somewhere better *s* thats how I see it, he also fathered two puppies who lived, and while one of them are gone now as well, who know the other may live on somewhere else to bring the genes on, if not the same genes he had still runs in my mothers lines *s* and one day when I got the option I'll get myself a puppy from those lines

But yeah growing up on the countryside the way i did, sort of puts a perspective on things, i seen fish die from i dont know how little i can been, we basicaly went fishing with my grandfather from as long back as i can remember. And ever since we moved, i seen elk slaugthered as well, + i been involved with the dogs from conseptions, to births to deaths. Had a rabit who died, a cat who gone missing and likely is dead, a cat i given up because it was the best for the kitten. When i was 4 and my sister was born she was alergic so the dog we had then we had to give up as well, like said my grandfather always kept dogs, and some of my uncles as well, i seen them grow up and well not litterary seen them die, but they been gone. Within my education i been to slaugtherhouses as well. And i worked on a farm, helping both at births, experiencing finding a stilborn calf, and helped with geting animals on the slaugthercar.

I guess i just aint squirmish, and i see life and death as a nesicary balance, and accept it as such. The only thing we do know for sure is that we will die one day, that everything and everyone that lives also eventualy dies. Like my stephdad use to say, "its dangerous to live, you can die from it"

I aint scared of death as long as it comes naturaly and in time then I can deal with it, I can prepare for it, and learn to accept it before it happens sort of, its the deaths that may come out of hand that migth one day prove to undo me, as some experiences already come to show me that the posibilities of those really scare me deeply, because if time is not up, then i aint ready to let go, and the posibility of having to do so that scares me. I tend to take one day at the time in one way, but in another way i tend to see things in long time perspectives of potnetial posibilities, and dont like not having any idea of what will come next in the large scale scenario of things, as long as i can see things in perspective and have time adjusting, i am fine.

And yeah as for reputation that takes time, even if you get off with a good start, but through slow dedicated work totaly posible, my mom is very much geting there.